Comments on: Did a Groupon Really Work for a Solo Lawyer?

By: You have No Clue

You have No Clue — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 03:05:11 +0000

Carolyn, you have no clue.

By: Nicole Black

Nicole Black — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:12:15 +0000

Oh, just skimmed over comments and I see that Paul mentioned the NYS opinion as well.

By: Nicole Black

Nicole Black — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:10:25 +0000

Funny this came up again! As Carolyn mentioned, she and I wrote about it a while ago, but it just so happens I just wrote about it again this week for my Daily Record article since the NYS Committee on Prof’nal Ethics issued an opinion on lawyers using Groupon in December.

Bottom line–it’s pretty much ok. But, I still question whether it’s a great way to market a law firm. But that’s just my opinion.

I just published the column to my blog here: http://nylawblog.typepad.com/suigeneris/2012/01/new-york-state-ethics-committee-on-lawyers-using-groupon-type-services.html

By: Carolyn Elefant

Carolyn Elefant — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:12:42 +0000

Paul – your experience is exactly why every bar needs an app for ethics. I did the same thing Paul did – it’s so easy to use, it’s impossible NOT to look up a rule or opinion! It almost makes ethics fun.

By: Greg

Greg — Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:18:34 +0000

It’s nice to see all of you finally catching up to me. Yesterday was the one-year anniversary of my Groupon, which was for tax preparation services. I sold 46, the second-highest ever for tax prep services (51 was the highest, and Groupon fully expected me to sell about 20 – they were surprised at how well I did), and only the third tax deal to that date to actually tip. Not long after mine ran, H&R Block ran one, though it was structurally different, so ‘m not sure if it was successful.

It remains to be seen how many repeat customers I get – tax season only now starting – but I can tell you at least three of the 46 have already called to schedule appointments. In addition, at least 2 of the 46 referred new, full-price clients during last tax season. Of the 46, one had me do her trust, and another paid me to consult with them on a short sale.

As for Yelp!, well, you’re just catching up to me there, too – in fact, Groupon wanted me to have some reviews on Yelp! before they ran my deal. I did get some business – and continue to get business – from Yelp!, all of which is near-full-price (I give a first-time discount to further encourage people to come in). Of the visits to my Yelp! page, I get about 10% in as at least one-time consults. I’d like to get that up, but I also know people look well in advance of when they need it (so some of those October page views turn into March customers), and others are just skimming, and would never be clients (for example, someone who wants a Chinese-speaking preparer).

I did not consult any rules of ethics prior to engaging in discussions with Groupon (about 6 months before the deal ran), for two reasons: first, because there wasn’t a lot of such discussion going on, so no one really was saying one way or another. Second, because I flatly didn’t care. Anyone who wanted to whine was welcome to cover my rent and student loan payments, as well as my other expenses. If they didn’t want to do that, they could STFU.

We contacted Groupon about doing another one this year, but they declined. Apparently, their interest is in high-volume, low-return stuff because they can pitch the volume better (Look! The last guy brought in 1,000 new clients!). As for the horror stories, such as cupcake lady, well, as a co-worker of mine used to say “your pain is your own.” Groupon discussed that potential problem with me long before the deal ran, and gave me the option of limiting sales (I decided not to, because I would have been ecstatic to sell 1,000 Groupons). She was a fool to ignore the warning, and got what she deserved.

And yes, plenty of lawyers gave me dire warnings about negative outcomes/ethics opinions (the NC opinion hit about a week before my deal). I welcomed them to chip in to cover my costs, if they wanted to tell me how to run my business. Shockingly, no one took me up on the offer…

Would I do it again? As Mr. Big said at the end of the SATC series, “Ab-so-f’ing-lutely.”

GAZ

By: Paul Jeff Perez

Paul Jeff Perez — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 00:41:37 +0000

Will do. I checked the rules on my new favorite app, the NYSBA Opinion App.

Opinion #897 (12/13/11)
Digest: Lawyer may market legal services on a “deal of the day” or “group coupon” website provided that the advertising is not misleading or deceptive and makes clear that no lawyer-client relationship will be formed until the lawyer can check for conflicts and competence to provide theservices. If the lawyer is unable to provide the offered service due to a conflict or competence issue,the lawyer must give the coupon buyer a full refund. If the coupon buyer terminates the representation, the buyer is entitled to a refund subject to the lawyer’s quantum meruit claim.

By: Carolyn Elefant

Carolyn Elefant — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:43:19 +0000

According to this site (http://wislawjournal.com/2011/02/22/the-latest-dish-on-daily-deal-sites/) at the Wisconsin Law Journal, the attorney sold 53 of the packages. At $99 a will, that comes to $5247. Assuming 2 hours of time per will, that’s roughly $26/hour – roughly what document review lawyers earn. But yes, he did make money (though we also don’t know what was lost if work was displaced)
To respond to Susan’s comments below, I find it hard to believe that Mr. Redler stopped using Groupon because of pressure from other lawyers. Perhaps that is the case, and if so, it is truly unfortunate. But I think that perhaps the experiment didn’t work out – and there is no shame in that either. I certainly do not fault Mr. Redler for trying.
Granted, many lawyers criticize practices that are well accepted in other industries. But with Groupon, it is not just lawyers who criticize the model, but business people in other sectors as well. There has been fairly extensive analysis and study on whether Groupon results in repeat business (data suggests not as much as it claims), the types of situations where it works, and whether the actual cost is worth the exposure. In the face of this kind of information, I don’t think that lawyers who decide against trying Groupon in favor of other ways to promote services should be criticized as behind the times or anti-innovation.

By: Debra L. Bruce

Debra L. Bruce — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:30:07 +0000

Very interesting information, Paul. Thanks for sharing it. I wonder how different the Yelp audience would be from the Groupon audience. One difference is that Yelpers have a handy and familiar platform for publicizing their opinions about your services. That makes good customer service even more critical.

By: Debra L. Bruce

Debra L. Bruce — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:25:39 +0000

Carolyn, you make many good points, as you did in your prior posts. For the record, in my original draft of this post, I DID reference your post and Nikki Black’s post on this subject from about a year ago. When I was able to get Craig Redler to let me interview him about this, however, I rewrote the post and cut out a lot of my original material.

As Susan said, this is not for everyone. I would even say: not for most. Nevertheless, I think it might be worth an experiment for some lawyers. I’ll talk about that in my next post, and include my warnings and caveats.

By: Susan Cartier Liebel

Susan Cartier Liebel — Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:04:53 +0000

We’re prescient! Paul, if you decide to pursue, let us know how it works out. I would encourage you limit the quantity for the first go round so you can get a feel for time management, client expectations and double-check how this complies (or not) with the rules in NY.