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	<title>Comments on: You&#8217;re Not A Real Lawyer If&#8230;.</title>
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	<description>The &#039;Practice of Law&#039; School</description>
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		<title>By: Allan Knox</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-70582</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Allan Knox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 04:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=2304#comment-70582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hallelujah - after going to another site, I found that there is now a movement to outsource legal services overseas at a fraction of the price! At last, lawyers will have to put up with what manufacturing and engineering have had to deal with! I want to shout this to the world! And I can just hire one by the hour (at apparently 1/100th the price).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hallelujah &#8211; after going to another site, I found that there is now a movement to outsource legal services overseas at a fraction of the price! At last, lawyers will have to put up with what manufacturing and engineering have had to deal with! I want to shout this to the world! And I can just hire one by the hour (at apparently 1/100th the price).</p>
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		<title>By: Allan Knox</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-70580</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Allan Knox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 04:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=2304#comment-70580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not a lawyer, and like the vast majority of the populace, I tend to be more than just a little unflattering to the profession. My main gripe right now is the whole lawyer business model. What happened to the days where you had a personal lawyer, you just called them up and said File an action here and do this, and they just did it and earned their money. I have had attorneys who were (supposedly) licensed to practice, but told me things like &quot;I don&#039;t handle auto (lien) lawsuits, or I don&#039;t do this or that&quot; Either you&#039;re a lawyer and can practice, or your not. As an engineer, if somebody can pay for it I&#039;m damned well going to try to do it. I&#039;d love to find a hungry, recent graduate that behaved like a &quot;real&quot; lawyer and just helped me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a lawyer, and like the vast majority of the populace, I tend to be more than just a little unflattering to the profession. My main gripe right now is the whole lawyer business model. What happened to the days where you had a personal lawyer, you just called them up and said File an action here and do this, and they just did it and earned their money. I have had attorneys who were (supposedly) licensed to practice, but told me things like &#8220;I don&#8217;t handle auto (lien) lawsuits, or I don&#8217;t do this or that&#8221; Either you&#8217;re a lawyer and can practice, or your not. As an engineer, if somebody can pay for it I&#8217;m damned well going to try to do it. I&#8217;d love to find a hungry, recent graduate that behaved like a &#8220;real&#8221; lawyer and just helped me.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Cartier Liebel</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-3764</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan Cartier Liebel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 02:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=2304#comment-3764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Martha, you haven&#039;t commented in awhile!  Glad you jumped in today because you said it very well.  It&#039;s just hard for people to be happy with their decisions when there&#039;s a running dialogue from people they &lt;em&gt;want&lt;/em&gt; to respect who don&#039;t respect them and their choices.  (One would rather fly with a tail-wind then a headwind, right?) Self-satisfaction is, I believe, a close cousin to self-actualization on Maslow&#039;s hierarchy of needs.  Pretty hard to get there at age 26 or 46, for that matter yet we persevere.  Thanks for these words of encouragement to all who read this blog!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martha, you haven&#8217;t commented in awhile!  Glad you jumped in today because you said it very well.  It&#8217;s just hard for people to be happy with their decisions when there&#8217;s a running dialogue from people they <em>want</em> to respect who don&#8217;t respect them and their choices.  (One would rather fly with a tail-wind then a headwind, right?) Self-satisfaction is, I believe, a close cousin to self-actualization on Maslow&#8217;s hierarchy of needs.  Pretty hard to get there at age 26 or 46, for that matter yet we persevere.  Thanks for these words of encouragement to all who read this blog!</p>
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		<title>By: Martha Sperry</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-3761</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martha Sperry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 02:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=2304#comment-3761</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very interesting post and comments. As a lawyer who firmly has a foot both in practice (in-house corporate) and consulting on Web tools, I am very sympathetic to the freedom that should be afforded anyone who makes it through law school to define their own career and be given the right and opportunity to label that career as they see fit (within ethical bounds). That said, a lawyer who is happy about how they have framed their own practice, their own career should be self-satisfied and not be too worried about how someone else views them or their work. If you are being paid to do what you love, then you are successful by any definition I can think of. And, if you are being paid, then there clearly is a need for your service. Our economics are changing: if you wish to ignore those changes, that&#039;s fine, but hopefully you are secure enough not to begrudge anyone else&#039;s choices in that regard. My guess is that the market weeds out the charlatans in any trade, whether it is a traditional legal practice or a novel mashup of law and some other field.

Susan, I have always admired Solo Practice U - keep up the great work!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting post and comments. As a lawyer who firmly has a foot both in practice (in-house corporate) and consulting on Web tools, I am very sympathetic to the freedom that should be afforded anyone who makes it through law school to define their own career and be given the right and opportunity to label that career as they see fit (within ethical bounds). That said, a lawyer who is happy about how they have framed their own practice, their own career should be self-satisfied and not be too worried about how someone else views them or their work. If you are being paid to do what you love, then you are successful by any definition I can think of. And, if you are being paid, then there clearly is a need for your service. Our economics are changing: if you wish to ignore those changes, that&#8217;s fine, but hopefully you are secure enough not to begrudge anyone else&#8217;s choices in that regard. My guess is that the market weeds out the charlatans in any trade, whether it is a traditional legal practice or a novel mashup of law and some other field.</p>
<p>Susan, I have always admired Solo Practice U &#8211; keep up the great work!</p>
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		<title>By: James B. Griffin</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-3750</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James B. Griffin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 21:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=2304#comment-3750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sounds more like &quot;Death of a Salesman&quot; to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds more like &#8220;Death of a Salesman&#8221; to me.</p>
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		<title>By: PokerLawyer</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-3740</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PokerLawyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=2304#comment-3740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ugh...that makes it seem like I said something really ugly or abusive or full of curse words, when I merely noted the implication that a certain beverage might have been involved in Mr. Tannebaum&#039;s exchange here. At any rate, interesting post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh&#8230;that makes it seem like I said something really ugly or abusive or full of curse words, when I merely noted the implication that a certain beverage might have been involved in Mr. Tannebaum&#8217;s exchange here. At any rate, interesting post.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Cartier Liebel</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-3738</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan Cartier Liebel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 16:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=2304#comment-3738</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jamison,

Thank you. You clearly got the point of the post. How often and/or how you deliver services isn&#039;t the variable that determines whether you are a &#039;real&#039; or &#039;fake&#039;  lawyer. (misrepresentation or lapse in ethics is a whole other issue unrelated to this post.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jamison,</p>
<p>Thank you. You clearly got the point of the post. How often and/or how you deliver services isn&#8217;t the variable that determines whether you are a &#8216;real&#8217; or &#8216;fake&#8217;  lawyer. (misrepresentation or lapse in ethics is a whole other issue unrelated to this post.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jamison</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-3735</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamison]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 15:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=2304#comment-3735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I have no idea what it means to be a “real lawyer,” the discussion is interesting in terms of what it says about the future of the legal profession.

If there is such a thing as a “real lawyer,” being human has to be part of the equation.  Overworked and depressed lawyers who have no perspective and no appreciation for the challenges their clients face do not serve those clients well.   Just because it’s always been done one way doesn’t mean it can’t be done far more effectively -- and ethically -- another way.  

Law firms who are stuck to the traditional way of doing things are missing out on an enormous amount of talent out there.  There are, for example, many extremely talented lawyers who took themselves out of the workforce to care for children or elderly parents or whatever and who are now interested in returning to work.  Some of these people may still require some type of accommodation, as, for example, through more flexible work hours. You can say, well, that’s too bad for you, you’ve made your bed, now you need to lie in it.  Or, taking advantage of the latest in technology, you can capitalize on this talent on terms that work for everyone involved.  

I know of at least one law firm that is doing this extremely effectively.  In fact, the head of this firm is only too pleased to take advantage of all the talent out there that others – people who are too wedded to the old way of doing things – fail to notice.   And there is no question of meeting client needs this way.  For example, a client who is sitting in jail doesn’t care if you have a fancy law office and a receptionist.  All the client cares about is whether or not he can reach you.  

I am no big fan of all the hucksters out there trying to sell products or services we don’t need.  But we are adults.   We are savvy.  We can figure out for ourselves what works and what doesn’t.   

All of that said, and because these discussions often deteriorate into ad hominem attacks, I should add that I am a practicing criminal defense attorney with a full list of clients and a bricks-and-mortar office.   I guess that makes me a “real lawyer.”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I have no idea what it means to be a “real lawyer,” the discussion is interesting in terms of what it says about the future of the legal profession.</p>
<p>If there is such a thing as a “real lawyer,” being human has to be part of the equation.  Overworked and depressed lawyers who have no perspective and no appreciation for the challenges their clients face do not serve those clients well.   Just because it’s always been done one way doesn’t mean it can’t be done far more effectively &#8212; and ethically &#8212; another way.  </p>
<p>Law firms who are stuck to the traditional way of doing things are missing out on an enormous amount of talent out there.  There are, for example, many extremely talented lawyers who took themselves out of the workforce to care for children or elderly parents or whatever and who are now interested in returning to work.  Some of these people may still require some type of accommodation, as, for example, through more flexible work hours. You can say, well, that’s too bad for you, you’ve made your bed, now you need to lie in it.  Or, taking advantage of the latest in technology, you can capitalize on this talent on terms that work for everyone involved.  </p>
<p>I know of at least one law firm that is doing this extremely effectively.  In fact, the head of this firm is only too pleased to take advantage of all the talent out there that others – people who are too wedded to the old way of doing things – fail to notice.   And there is no question of meeting client needs this way.  For example, a client who is sitting in jail doesn’t care if you have a fancy law office and a receptionist.  All the client cares about is whether or not he can reach you.  </p>
<p>I am no big fan of all the hucksters out there trying to sell products or services we don’t need.  But we are adults.   We are savvy.  We can figure out for ourselves what works and what doesn’t.   </p>
<p>All of that said, and because these discussions often deteriorate into ad hominem attacks, I should add that I am a practicing criminal defense attorney with a full list of clients and a bricks-and-mortar office.   I guess that makes me a “real lawyer.”</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Cartier Liebel</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-3725</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan Cartier Liebel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 12:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Please take note of comment policy: http://solopracticeuniversity.com/comment-policy/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please take note of comment policy: <a href="http://solopracticeuniversity.com/comment-policy/" rel="nofollow">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/comment-policy/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Whelan Jr</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2011/03/11/youre-not-a-real-lawyer-if/#comment-3702</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Whelan Jr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 06:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=2304#comment-3702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow. I seriously never thought I&#039;d read an Above the Law style war on this blog. I don&#039;t know anything about Brian and, though he seems kind of mean (seriously, how can someone bash Niki Black who, by all accounts, is one of the truly nice people?), but I do think the legal consultant thing is getting out of hand. Not because people don&#039;t need help - if they didn&#039;t need it no one would be willing to spend $85 for one of those ridiculous, content-thin, 150 page books published by the ABA  - but because so few consultants are any good. Theoretically, you pay for a consultant rather than taking a lawyer buddy to lunch because that consultant is interesting, clear, and dropping content left and right. I can&#039;t afford SPU so I can&#039;t speak to the quality, but very few of the CLEs I&#039;ve seen or ABA books I have read have been any good. Ron Baker&#039;s book Firm of the Future is one of few exceptions because it is interesting, clear, and full of content. So I agree with Brian inasmuch as we are limiting the critique to bad consultants (which most are) rather than to the idea of consultants (which are apparently needed).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I seriously never thought I&#8217;d read an Above the Law style war on this blog. I don&#8217;t know anything about Brian and, though he seems kind of mean (seriously, how can someone bash Niki Black who, by all accounts, is one of the truly nice people?), but I do think the legal consultant thing is getting out of hand. Not because people don&#8217;t need help &#8211; if they didn&#8217;t need it no one would be willing to spend $85 for one of those ridiculous, content-thin, 150 page books published by the ABA  &#8211; but because so few consultants are any good. Theoretically, you pay for a consultant rather than taking a lawyer buddy to lunch because that consultant is interesting, clear, and dropping content left and right. I can&#8217;t afford SPU so I can&#8217;t speak to the quality, but very few of the CLEs I&#8217;ve seen or ABA books I have read have been any good. Ron Baker&#8217;s book Firm of the Future is one of few exceptions because it is interesting, clear, and full of content. So I agree with Brian inasmuch as we are limiting the critique to bad consultants (which most are) rather than to the idea of consultants (which are apparently needed).</p>
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