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	<title>Comments on: The Virtual Law Office Debate&#8230;Really?</title>
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	<description>The &#039;Practice of Law&#039; School</description>
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		<title>By: The future of the legal profession: expert predictions for 2012 and beyond &#124; International Business Development</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-60502</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The future of the legal profession: expert predictions for 2012 and beyond &#124; International Business Development]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 05:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-60502</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Cartier Liebel, Founder &amp; CEO of Solo Practice University, in a blogpost entitled: The Virtual Law Office Debate: Really? writes about Stephanie Kimbro and Richard Granat.  They are both virtual practitioners as well as [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cartier Liebel, Founder &amp; CEO of Solo Practice University, in a blogpost entitled: The Virtual Law Office Debate: Really? writes about Stephanie Kimbro and Richard Granat.  They are both virtual practitioners as well as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-1294</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2010 22:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-1294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been searching the internet for some hard data on the viability of a VLO and hoping that by posting here as well as other places I might gain some small knowledge. 

I started a family law practice in a small town last year (bill $150 per hour) and am up to about $90,000 in gross profits this year. Probably 95% of my clients come from the internet. I do some uncontested work but the majority of my income is contested cases. I would love to switch over to a VLO doing uncontested cases to lower the stress level, gain more mobility, lose the commute, and so on. I am willing to take a significant hit to my net profit but need to know that eventually I will make enough money to, at the least, survive modestly. For me that&#039;s a VLO with a gross profit of $35-40k. I would be willing to move to a third world country and earn $25-30k, at least to start while building a client base. Does this seem feasible given the information provided? I keep hearing that it took X years for my VLO to be successful but no real definition of what successful is. Obviously the definition varies greatly from person to person. 

It&#039;s hard for me to think that slowly transitioning from a brick and mortar office to a VLO is a great idea. I would charge a lower rate running a VLO and it would significantly cut into my net profits to do so due to maintaining costly office expenses. I would rather save up $25-30k and go from a brick and mortar to an entirely virtual office, and give my full attention to building up web pages and internet marketing. 

Anyways, any hard data or anecdotal data on the profitability of a family law VLO would be greatly appreciated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been searching the internet for some hard data on the viability of a VLO and hoping that by posting here as well as other places I might gain some small knowledge. </p>
<p>I started a family law practice in a small town last year (bill $150 per hour) and am up to about $90,000 in gross profits this year. Probably 95% of my clients come from the internet. I do some uncontested work but the majority of my income is contested cases. I would love to switch over to a VLO doing uncontested cases to lower the stress level, gain more mobility, lose the commute, and so on. I am willing to take a significant hit to my net profit but need to know that eventually I will make enough money to, at the least, survive modestly. For me that&#8217;s a VLO with a gross profit of $35-40k. I would be willing to move to a third world country and earn $25-30k, at least to start while building a client base. Does this seem feasible given the information provided? I keep hearing that it took X years for my VLO to be successful but no real definition of what successful is. Obviously the definition varies greatly from person to person. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard for me to think that slowly transitioning from a brick and mortar office to a VLO is a great idea. I would charge a lower rate running a VLO and it would significantly cut into my net profits to do so due to maintaining costly office expenses. I would rather save up $25-30k and go from a brick and mortar to an entirely virtual office, and give my full attention to building up web pages and internet marketing. </p>
<p>Anyways, any hard data or anecdotal data on the profitability of a family law VLO would be greatly appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: What&#8217;s the Truth about Virtual Law Offices?</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-1227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What&#8217;s the Truth about Virtual Law Offices?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-1227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] some great feedback and some criticism. I&#8217;m glad to have stimulated some discussion (here, here, here and here).Just so we&#8217;re clear, I love the idea of a virtual practice. We&#8217;ve had a [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] some great feedback and some criticism. I&#8217;m glad to have stimulated some discussion (here, here, here and here).Just so we&#8217;re clear, I love the idea of a virtual practice. We&#8217;ve had a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Weekly Sociable Lawyer Round Up &#171; The Sociable Lawyer Blog</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-1226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Weekly Sociable Lawyer Round Up &#171; The Sociable Lawyer Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-1226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Divorce Discourse What The Virtual Office Advocates Aren’t Telling You August 18, Lee Rosen There seems to be great interest on the part of attorneys in the concept of running a virtual firm and delivering services via phone, e-mail, and a web portal rather than conducting business in a traditional office.I think it’s a great idea. Unfortunately, most of the attorneys buying into the concept miss something important when they evaluate the likelihood of success of a virtual practice. Response: MyShingle.com The Virtual Law Office Debate: Virtually Impossible To Succeed or Not? Response: Building a Solo Practice @ SPU The Virtual Law Office Debate&#8230;Really? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Divorce Discourse What The Virtual Office Advocates Aren’t Telling You August 18, Lee Rosen There seems to be great interest on the part of attorneys in the concept of running a virtual firm and delivering services via phone, e-mail, and a web portal rather than conducting business in a traditional office.I think it’s a great idea. Unfortunately, most of the attorneys buying into the concept miss something important when they evaluate the likelihood of success of a virtual practice. Response: MyShingle.com The Virtual Law Office Debate: Virtually Impossible To Succeed or Not? Response: Building a Solo Practice @ SPU The Virtual Law Office Debate&#8230;Really? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Judy Young</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-1225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Judy Young]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-1225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well said Susan.

I&#039;m not sure who Lee Rosen considers to be &quot;most attorneys&quot; but I think the generalization is both wrong-headed and frankly mis-leading.  I operate a full practice virtual law office, and yes I do market my services.  When I purchased services from my VLOTECH vendor  Steph Kimbro I was never told that operating a VLO would eliminate my need to market the practice.  All practices both virtual and traditional have to be marketed.  A virtual client portal allows me the flexibility to reach across the state to access my clients (winery owners).  I would not be able to do this with a traditional brick and mortar firm. I provide high end services.  So who are these attorney&#039;s exactly that Lee Rosen referring to at this point?

Sounds like the beginning of silly season to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Susan.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure who Lee Rosen considers to be &#8220;most attorneys&#8221; but I think the generalization is both wrong-headed and frankly mis-leading.  I operate a full practice virtual law office, and yes I do market my services.  When I purchased services from my VLOTECH vendor  Steph Kimbro I was never told that operating a VLO would eliminate my need to market the practice.  All practices both virtual and traditional have to be marketed.  A virtual client portal allows me the flexibility to reach across the state to access my clients (winery owners).  I would not be able to do this with a traditional brick and mortar firm. I provide high end services.  So who are these attorney&#8217;s exactly that Lee Rosen referring to at this point?</p>
<p>Sounds like the beginning of silly season to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Twitted by stefaniedevery</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-1224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Twitted by stefaniedevery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 01:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-1224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This post was Twitted by stefaniedevery [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was Twitted by stefaniedevery [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adding to the Virtual Law Practice Debate &#171; Virtual Law Practice</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-1223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adding to the Virtual Law Practice Debate &#171; Virtual Law Practice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-1223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Susan Cartier Liebel, &#8220;The Virtual Law Office Debate&#8230;Really?&#8221; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Susan Cartier Liebel, &#8220;The Virtual Law Office Debate&#8230;Really?&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention The Virtual Law Office Debate…Really? &#124; Build A Solo Practice @ SPU -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-1222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tweets that mention The Virtual Law Office Debate…Really? &#124; Build A Solo Practice @ SPU -- Topsy.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-1222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by SCartierLiebel, Christopher Hill, StephKimbro, Rania Combs, Stefanie Devery and others. Stefanie Devery said: RT @SCartierLiebel: The Virtual Law Office Debate…Really? New at BSP @ #SPU http://bit.ly/cVQnXt [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by SCartierLiebel, Christopher Hill, StephKimbro, Rania Combs, Stefanie Devery and others. Stefanie Devery said: RT @SCartierLiebel: The Virtual Law Office Debate…Really? New at BSP @ #SPU <a href="http://bit.ly/cVQnXt" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/cVQnXt</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Cartier Liebel</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-1221</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan Cartier Liebel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-1221</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&#039;http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/richard/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/richard/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/richard/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Richard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt; - thanks for such clarity on the topic!
&lt;a href=&#039;http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/carolyn/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/carolyn/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&#039;http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/carolyn/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Carolyn&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt; - I don&#039;t disagree with either you or Lee that educating the consumer is key.  And it does take sweat equity - not necessarily big dollars - which I explained in response to @Hunter. But the multiple hats aspect of solo practice has always been there.  This is not an additional hat. Just a changing of hats.

The real challenge, I think, you are talking about is a lawyer who goes strictly virtual right from the beginning of their practice AND goes low-end unbundled.  They have the most challenging road because it is multiple concepts being introduced to the client at one time.  Without targeting the right audience with the right message this can be extremely difficult and unprofitable because you would need volume.

There are too many separate issues being introduced into this debate, though - virtual law practice, unbundled legal services and business planning/marketing -  and the fall-guy for poor business planning/marketing should not be virtual law practice technology.  It is just a new platform to facilitate the practice of law and an extremely cost-effective one for solos and clients today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/richard/' rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/richard/' rel="nofollow">@Richard</a> &#8211; thanks for such clarity on the topic!<br />
<a href='http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/carolyn/' rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://solopracticeuniversity.com/members/carolyn/' rel="nofollow">@Carolyn</a> &#8211; I don&#8217;t disagree with either you or Lee that educating the consumer is key.  And it does take sweat equity &#8211; not necessarily big dollars &#8211; which I explained in response to @Hunter. But the multiple hats aspect of solo practice has always been there.  This is not an additional hat. Just a changing of hats.</p>
<p>The real challenge, I think, you are talking about is a lawyer who goes strictly virtual right from the beginning of their practice AND goes low-end unbundled.  They have the most challenging road because it is multiple concepts being introduced to the client at one time.  Without targeting the right audience with the right message this can be extremely difficult and unprofitable because you would need volume.</p>
<p>There are too many separate issues being introduced into this debate, though &#8211; virtual law practice, unbundled legal services and business planning/marketing &#8211;  and the fall-guy for poor business planning/marketing should not be virtual law practice technology.  It is just a new platform to facilitate the practice of law and an extremely cost-effective one for solos and clients today.</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn Elefant</title>
		<link>https://solopracticeuniversity.com/2010/08/23/the-virtual-law-office-debate-really/#comment-1220</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carolyn Elefant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://buildasolopractice.solopracticeuniversity.com/?p=279#comment-1220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice post, Susan.  I agree that a virtual platform does not necessarily equate to unbundled services.  However, that seems to be the way that virtual platforms are being marketed.  Indeed, there are many lawyers (myself included) who have been providing lower cost versions of &quot;high end&quot; services (e.g., energy regulatory, telecom, appellate) entirely online, albeit not necessarily through a client portal, and this type of set up, as I understand, is technically, not considered a virtual law practice.
I also agree with the previous commenter that right now, many clients do not want to use virtual platforms.  I have had a lot of trouble getting my clients to use portals rather than just communicate by email.  That&#039;s a non-issue, because I suspect that these habits may change and lawyers need to stay ahead of the curve.
Where I do agree with Lee, however, is that whether low-end services are competitors to Legal Zoom or a substitute for high-end services that clients can no longer afford (which is a great point), you need volume to make the practice financially viable - and to generate volume, you need to spend a lot on marketing.  I did the math in this earlier post regarding a firm in NY (http://myshingle.com/2009/09/articles/marketing-making-money/what-does-the-good-enough-phenomenon-mean-for-solos/)  I think that many people who start virtual firms underestimate the amount of effort involved in attracting enough clients to make it financially viable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post, Susan.  I agree that a virtual platform does not necessarily equate to unbundled services.  However, that seems to be the way that virtual platforms are being marketed.  Indeed, there are many lawyers (myself included) who have been providing lower cost versions of &#8220;high end&#8221; services (e.g., energy regulatory, telecom, appellate) entirely online, albeit not necessarily through a client portal, and this type of set up, as I understand, is technically, not considered a virtual law practice.<br />
I also agree with the previous commenter that right now, many clients do not want to use virtual platforms.  I have had a lot of trouble getting my clients to use portals rather than just communicate by email.  That&#8217;s a non-issue, because I suspect that these habits may change and lawyers need to stay ahead of the curve.<br />
Where I do agree with Lee, however, is that whether low-end services are competitors to Legal Zoom or a substitute for high-end services that clients can no longer afford (which is a great point), you need volume to make the practice financially viable &#8211; and to generate volume, you need to spend a lot on marketing.  I did the math in this earlier post regarding a firm in NY (<a href="http://myshingle.com/2009/09/articles/marketing-making-money/what-does-the-good-enough-phenomenon-mean-for-solos/" rel="nofollow">http://myshingle.com/2009/09/articles/marketing-making-money/what-does-the-good-enough-phenomenon-mean-for-solos/</a>)  I think that many people who start virtual firms underestimate the amount of effort involved in attracting enough clients to make it financially viable.</p>
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